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Old 02-02-2017   #131
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Default Re: Are Vancouver dubs going to go extinct?

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Really would like to stay on topic. I suggested a separate thread for Gintama, but it hasn't gotten through.

Oops my bad!
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Old 08-27-2017   #132
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Default Re: Are Vancouver dubs going to go extinct?

This year we've seen World Trigger, Gintama°, the Sinbad anime movie trilogy, and Beyblade Burst. That's just counting anime and not some of the Korean cartoons Ocean works on, like Tobot and Biklonz. They may have even worked on more I'm not yet aware of. For a few years they were doing French CG cartoons, so that's always a possibility.

Beyblade Burst's dub is continuing with its second season. Card Fight Vanguard and Future Card Buddyfight are ongoing, but those are exclusively Calgary/Edmonton productions.

I've heard a rumour that Crunchyroll has sent more work to Ocean, but I haven't been able to confirm that. Specifically a spring 2016 series CR was on the production committee for. I'm being vague because I don't know if this is a valid rumour and I'd rather not have "______ is being dubbed by Ocean, confirmed!!!" parroted around the net.

I do know Ocean's been doing pilots, though I haven't a clue as to what shows. Beyblade Burst and the Sinbad movies were produced in conjunction with JLOP, a division of the Japanese government's "Cool Japan" initiative. These pilots could simply be sales projects for shows that have flown under the radar.

Moving beyond Ocean, Black Jack and Black Jack 21 (2004) were dubbed in the GVRD. It wasn't by Ocean or Azur, though.
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Old 08-27-2017   #133
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Default Re: Are Vancouver dubs going to go extinct?

Gintama°, World Trigger and the Sinbad anime movie trilogy are done. Beyblade Burst is continuing on to its second season. That's just for anime stuff. Ocean's done a few Korean cartoons like Tobot and Biklonz. They've also worked on a bunch of French shows before, so there's always a chance for more. Of course, Calgary/Edmonton are still producing Card Fight Vanguard and Future Card Buddyfight.

I've heard a rumour that CR has/will sent/send more work to Ocean. I've heard of a specific title that debuted in Japan spring 2016, but I don't want to name it since I haven't been able to confirm the rumour myself.

I do know, however, that Ocean has produced a number of pilots recently. For what? No idea. Beyblade Burst and Sinbad were produced in partnership with JLOP, a division of Cool Japan. I think it's likely one of the companies associated with that were looking to get pilot dubs done for shows that have slipped through the cracks.

Black Jack and Black Jack 21 were dubbed in the GVRD. Though, it wasn't at Ocean or even Azur.
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Old 09-14-2017   #134
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Default Re: Are Vancouver dubs going to go extinct?

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Gintama°, World Trigger and the Sinbad anime movie trilogy are done. Beyblade Burst is continuing on to its second season. That's just for anime stuff. Ocean's done a few Korean cartoons like Tobot and Biklonz. They've also worked on a bunch of French shows before, so there's always a chance for more. Of course, Calgary/Edmonton are still producing Card Fight Vanguard and Future Card Buddyfight.

I've heard a rumour that CR has/will sent/send more work to Ocean. I've heard of a specific title that debuted in Japan spring 2016, but I don't want to name it since I haven't been able to confirm the rumour myself.

I do know, however, that Ocean has produced a number of pilots recently. For what? No idea. Beyblade Burst and Sinbad were produced in partnership with JLOP, a division of Cool Japan. I think it's likely one of the companies associated with that were looking to get pilot dubs done for shows that have slipped through the cracks.

Black Jack and Black Jack 21 were dubbed in the GVRD. Though, it wasn't at Ocean or even Azur.
>spring season.

Dang A part of me almost for a second thought maybe Konosuba had a good shot. Very curious what this spring season show might be.

I think the more recent Gintama seasons will eventually get dubbed at Ocean, considering how well received the Gintama° was online.
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Old 09-14-2017   #135
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Default Re: Are Vancouver dubs going to go extinct?

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I've heard of a specific title that debuted in Japan spring 2016, but I don't want to name it since I haven't been able to confirm the rumour myself.
As unlikely this seems, could it be Macross Delta (it debuted in the Spring 2016 season)? I know Bandai Visual provided English subs for the JP BDs but could they secretly be making a dub, as they did provide a dub for Macross Plus and Big West is on its way to reclaim the rights from Harmony Gold outside of Japan

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Old 09-14-2017   #136
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I'm not interested in playing a guessing game, but I think it's safe to say the show I'm talking about isn't Macross Delta, hah.

I also want to stress that I have no idea what Ocean's recording/recorded this year, beyond continuing projects. I've only heard of one show that I haven't confirmed is actually happening. They could actually be dubbing Macross Delta or Konosuba right this minute and I wouldn't know.

By the way, I don't know if anyone's checked it out, but here's a snippet of Ocean's work on the Sinbad anime films. The three movies are available to stream for free on Amazon Prime, but it seems like they haven't gotten much attention. Nippon Animation kind of just dumped them out with 0 fanfare or promotion. A shame, since while the films are a bit on the dull side (my opinion might change if I see the compilation version), it's a solid outing for the cast. Don Brown even has a little role. Hopefully someone picks it up for DVD/BD and it gets more eyeballs that way.

I was pretty disappointed when I found out Turner went with Bang Zoom for the international Dragon Ball Super dub. While it's been a few years since Ocean's Kai wrapped up, the alleged leads in that dub are all active. All Ocean would've had to cast would've been the new characters... Oh well, I guess Turner wanted cheap, but not with Hong Kong quality.
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Old 09-15-2017   #137
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Default Re: Are Vancouver dubs going to go extinct?

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I was pretty disappointed when I found out Turner went with Bang Zoom for the international Dragon Ball Super dub. While it's been a few years since Ocean's Kai wrapped up, the alleged leads in that dub are all active. All Ocean would've had to cast would've been the new characters... Oh well, I guess Turner wanted cheap, but not with Hong Kong quality.
I think you're right about their reasons for choosing Bang Zoom although I suspect a lack of communication between the two companies may have also been a factor. I say this because back in January I emailed a guy named James Moore who works for Turner Asia, he had previously confirmed that the Bang Zoom dub belonged to them. When asked about Ocean's Kai dub and if it was also a Turner product, he simply said that he could find nothing about it within the company and, strangest of all, was that he mentioned "Ocean Media seems to have shut up shop a number of years ago and I can’t get hold of my contact who worked there anymore." Obviously, Ocean hasn't gone anywhere so he was obviously just uninformed and assumed wrongly. It would be a shame if this is a held belief within the company, it could help explain why their Kai dub wasn't broadcast in any SEA territories like, say PPGZ was back in the day.

But in the end, I think Canada's refusal to broadcast Dragon Ball Kai and more mature anime is what's done the most harm. It would be easier to justify paying higher costs to Ocean if, in the end, it meant the dub could also be sold to Canadian channels and be more appealing due to it being able to pass CRTC regulations. These days they don't have to worry about any of that so Bang Zoom seems to get more of the anime work.
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Old 09-15-2017   #138
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Talking Re: Are Vancouver dubs going to go extinct?

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But in the end, I think Canada's refusal to broadcast Dragon Ball Kai and more mature anime is what's done the most harm. It would be easier to justify paying higher costs to Ocean if, in the end, it meant the dub could also be sold to Canadian channels and be more appealing due to it being able to pass CRTC regulations. These days they don't have to worry about any of that so Bang Zoom seems to get more of the anime work.
This is exactly why Vancouver dubs dried up following the crash. Without a dedicated anime block something like Bionix, companies no longer have the incentive to give dubs to Vancouver.

There were opportunities to keep it going. Bionix could have aired Gurren Lagann but Bandai inked a deal with Starz for TV broadcast and streaming rights of that show and Starz inked a deal with Super Channel. Gundam 00 could also have aired on Bionix (it was actually approved by the CRTC) but I guess they found it a bit too much for them. Same with Code Geass.

The reason Bang Zoom gets more dubs these days is that they're the de facto dubbing studio (in addition to somewhat lower prices).

Anime companies have prioritized speed and low cost because they don't have as much money in their pockets as they used to, and the reason for that is because they've actually been making less revenue in the long run since the dawn of the cour sets, and streaming isn't big enough to act as a substitute for the lost revenue. They failed to take into account inelasticity (cour sets cost $5 per episode compared to $10 per episode from the singles). As the Chad Kime ANNCast explains, Geneon tried various pricing points for their singles (which were 3-4 episodes a piece): $30, $35, $40, even $20, even $45, and all sold a similar amount of units. In fact, this inelasticity was what allowed the anime companies to flourish during the early-mid-2000s and thus be able to splurge more on dubs. The lowered revenue has led to lowered dub budgets in the 2010s. In fact, Les Claypool III stated that lower dub budgets were his biggest reason in closing down Magnitude 8 Post in late 2015.
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Old 09-15-2017   #139
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Default Re: Are Vancouver dubs going to go extinct?

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I think you're right about their reasons for choosing Bang Zoom although I suspect a lack of communication between the two companies may have also been a factor. I say this because back in January I emailed a guy named James Moore who works for Turner Asia, he had previously confirmed that the Bang Zoom dub belonged to them. When asked about Ocean's Kai dub and if it was also a Turner product, he simply said that he could find nothing about it within the company and, strangest of all, was that he mentioned "Ocean Media seems to have shut up shop a number of years ago and I can’t get hold of my contact who worked there anymore." Obviously, Ocean hasn't gone anywhere so he was obviously just uninformed and assumed wrongly. It would be a shame if this is a held belief within the company, it could help explain why their Kai dub wasn't broadcast in any SEA territories like, say PPGZ was back in the day.
The "Ocean shutdown" thing is something I've come across a lot, actually. IIRC, even Justin Sevakis once mistakenly said that in an Answerman column. I'm not sure where that's coming from. The most likely to me is that anime fans are astute enough to notice Ocean hasn't been in a headline fandom anime project in years (and have been absent from franchises they once held, like Gundam), but aren't astute enough to look them up, so they leap to conclusions. It doesn't help that Ocean are so quiet. Until late last year they didn't have any real web presence (Blue Water's site hasn't been updated in like a decade and Ocean's website has been a "Coming soon" message for years), and honestly, this Twitter and Facebook account aren't much of a web presence either. Another possibility is that people are getting confused by the way their name keeps on changing in credits. For a long time, it was The Ocean Group. Then it was Ocean Productions, but you've also seen Ocean Media, Ocean Studios and even Ocean Entertainment in some of the newer shows. I don't know the distinction between those all, but they're the same company based in the same building and run by the same people. The confusion could even be a case of broken telephone. Someone hears Westwood Media shutdown (which they did) and assumes Ocean is dead. Westwood wasn't Ocean under a different name, or a sister studio like Blue Water. It was an independent company run by different people in a different Vancouver building. Could even be a case where someone confuses Optimum Productions in Toronto with them. I kind of doubt that one, though.


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This is exactly why Vancouver dubs dried up following the crash. Without a dedicated anime block something like Bionix, companies no longer have the incentive to give dubs to Vancouver.

There were opportunities to keep it going. Bionix could have aired Gurren Lagann but Bandai inked a deal with Starz for TV broadcast and streaming rights of that show and Starz inked a deal with Super Channel. Gundam 00 could also have aired on Bionix (it was actually approved by the CRTC) but I guess they found it a bit too much for them. Same with Code Geass.
The death of Bionix had little to do with a lack of notable content. If that was the case, YTV and Corus would've just become choosy with regards to what they picked up. Instead, they dropped non-toyline based anime entirely. Even that stuff wasn't safe, as Corus eventually dumped Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh! and Beyblade to Teletoon. Canada holds the dubious honour of being one of the only English speaking countries in the world to have not had a Dragon Ball Kai TV run. Heck, Viz even publicly asked YTV to air Sailor Moon/Sailor Moon Crystal and they were met with a cold shoulder.* This was the channel that just years prior was the first broadcaster outside of Asia and Italy to take a chance on Pretty Cure. Now they didn't even want the series that inspired them to pick up other magical girl shows.

*To be fair, Viz kind of gave Canada the cold shoulder all the time around then. Sailor Moon is probably the most extreme example of "didn't find an audience in US, found one up here" there is for anime. YTV was directly responsible for the creation of the post-DiC episodes before it landed on Toonami. Irwin Toys in Toronto was the show's North American toy partner. The dub was produced in Toronto. Annual Sailor Moon fan conventions/gatherings/cafes happen in Toronto. Viz celebrated that history by announcing their Sailor Moon license ... at a US con the size of Anime North in Toronto ... the week before Anime North. Despite being one of the top 5 largest anime conventions in North America, they almost never attend Anime North (the same unfortunately goes for most R1 companies). They then moved the dub's production to LA (RIP in peace Cancon), didn't invite a single cast member from the original to audition, even if they lived in LA (though, Viz Sailor Moon being non-union might have something to do with that). Then they streamed the sub/dub exclusively on Hulu, a service that isn't available in Canada, for years (not Sailor Moon specific for Viz, though). They eventually landed a Canadian streaming partner, but no one's heard of Tubi, and that deal only came as a result of Viz panicking after Hulu threatened to delist shows. You can really feel the love.
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Old 09-15-2017   #140
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Default Re: Are Vancouver dubs going to go extinct?

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The death of Bionix had little to do with a lack of notable content. If that was the case, YTV and Corus would've just become choosy with regards to what they picked up. Instead, they dropped non-toyline based anime entirely. Even that stuff wasn't safe, as Corus eventually dumped Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh! and Beyblade to Teletoon. Canada holds the dubious honour of being one of the only English speaking countries in the world to have not had a Dragon Ball Kai TV run. Heck, Viz even publicly asked YTV to air Sailor Moon/Sailor Moon Crystal and they were met with a cold shoulder.* This was the channel that just years prior was the first broadcaster outside of Asia and Italy to take a chance on Pretty Cure. Now they didn't even want the series that inspired them to pick up other magical girl shows.
YTV had pretty much gone down the gutter by the time of Bionix's decline and closure. Not helping was the dearth of any worthwhile anime on US TV (Adult Swim had at most 1 new anime premiere between 2008 and 2011), or even in general for that matter. Best bet now is for Toonami to come to Canada, considering that Cartoon Network and Adult Swim are available there now.

Last edited by Domayv; 09-15-2017 at 11:46 AM.
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