Are Vancouver dubs going to go extinct?

[IMB]

Originally Posted by drakh

Well, if COVID has crushed the barrier for VAs dubbing from their home studios, that opens up a lot of options. I think it's possible for non-US SAG members to work under their home countries' union, but I would expect they'd have to be physically in the country, so presumably Yashahime would have to go through SAG even if it's Ocean that's doing it.

Else, going down the SAG db rabbit hole, I noticed that NYAV Post is working on "Kingdom Season 2" (2019 dubbing contract). Could be something else though. Did Netflix dub the Korean Kingdom live action series?

If Kaye's involved, I can't see it being a nonunion LA dub. While Sesshomaru is a character he holds dear, he doesn't even go for unionized LA dubs. So if it's being recorded south of the border, it's surprising it's not in the SAG database (yet?).

Assuming he's still a member of ACTRA, there shouldn't be anything legally preventing Kaye from being in a remotely recorded Canadian production. Tara Strong hasn't lived in Canada since the '90s, yet she still lands lead roles in shows recorded in Toronto and Vancouver. It's not uncommon to see Canadian actors who've moved to the U.S. do that, as Trevor Devall also being in Pony Life demonstrates. Kaye is actually one of the few prominent ones that doesn't.

It's just that I'd be really surprised if Ocean brought him back. Even ignoring the fact that he's in a different country, Kaye was already replaced by someone who is still active and local. They didn't give Sota back to Saffron Henderson in The Final Act even though she had returned to Vancouver before then. The only Goku they asked to reaudition for Dragon Ball Kai was Kirby Morrow, because he was the most recent one. Maybe Viz requested his return (doubtful), or maybe it's gone to another company in Vancouver, who doesn't have any loyalty to Daingerfield? Maybe Kaye isn't actually going to be in Yashahime and I'm just reading too much into things? Who knows.

We shouldn't have to wait that long to find out. Viz said the dub will "follow shortly after" the Japanese debut.

[drakh]

Originally Posted by IMB

Assuming he's still a member of ACTRA, there shouldn't be anything legally preventing Kaye from being in a remotely recorded Canadian production. Tara Strong hasn't lived in Canada since the '90s, yet she still lands lead roles in shows recorded in Toronto and Vancouver. It's not uncommon to see Canadian actors who've moved to the U.S. do that, as Trevor Devall also being in Pony Life demonstrates. Kaye is actually one of the few prominent ones that doesn't.

I did see a bunch of My Little Pony entries in the SAG db, but I suppose those might be for other American guest stars. I don't really know the franchise.

It's hard to figure out exactly how this works. When SAG proclaimed Global Rule One in 2002, SAG members could only work under SAG contracts, regardless where in the world they were. This caused an uproar from other actors unions, and concessions were made. I've seen references to two ways around it, but I have now idea if these are fully accurate. One is an exception that non-US members can work in their home country under its actors union. The other is that other actors' unions can enter into an agreement with SAG, where the project is under the other union's jurisdiction, but there's additional paperwork that ensures SAG gets it's pension contribution etc.

These do not seem to cover all conditions though, since there are a plenty of Vancouver productions in the SAG db. Even Ocean/Interpacific is in there for the Norm of the North movies. And it's hard to know the location of the actor when recording also, I do get the impression that Devall has returned to Vancouver every now and then to record stuff for example. With COVID going on, I suppose there might even rules waived for actors who are unable to travel.

Originally Posted by IMB

It's just that I'd be really surprised if Ocean brought him back. Even ignoring the fact that he's in a different country, Kaye was already replaced by someone who is still active and local. They didn't give Sota back to Saffron Henderson in The Final Act even though she had returned to Vancouver before then. The only Goku they asked to reaudition for Dragon Ball Kai was Kirby Morrow, because he was the most recent one. Maybe Viz requested his return (doubtful), or maybe it's gone to another company in Vancouver, who doesn't have any loyalty to Daingerfield? Maybe Kaye isn't actually going to be in Yashahime and I'm just reading too much into things? Who knows.

Kaye worked with Ocean since they got their start in voice overs, and they even got him for the Ghost in the Shell compilation movies which was after he'd stopped doing dubs and largely moved on to more lucrative promo / ad jobs. I would guess they had a very good relationship, and if the "right project" to work together again came along, I see no reason for them not to go for it. Daingerfield was fine, but his tenure as Sesshomaru was pretty short in comparison. It sucks for him, but I think the number of people pining for his return are minuscule.

[IMB]

Originally Posted by drakh

I did see a bunch of My Little Pony entries in the SAG db, but I suppose those might be for other American guest stars. I don't really know the franchise.

It's hard to figure out exactly how this works. When SAG proclaimed Global Rule One in 2002, SAG members could only work under SAG contracts, regardless where in the world they were. This caused an uproar from other actors unions, and concessions were made. I've seen references to two ways around it, but I have now idea if these are fully accurate. One is an exception that non-US members can work in their home country under its actors union. The other is that other actors' unions can enter into an agreement with SAG, where the project is under the other union's jurisdiction, but there's additional paperwork that ensures SAG gets it's pension contribution etc.

These do not seem to cover all conditions though, since there are a plenty of Vancouver productions in the SAG db. Even Ocean/Interpacific is in there for the Norm of the North movies. And it's hard to know the location of the actor when recording also, I do get the impression that Devall has returned to Vancouver every now and then to record stuff for example. With COVID going on, I suppose there might even rules waived for actors who are unable to travel.

MLP's various guest stars does muddy the waters a bit. I'm still inclined to believe most of the Vancouver or Toronto shows with one or two Canadians in LA are produced under ACTRA. Tara Strong shows up in a lot of stuff that's never in the SAG database and I doubt she's bouncing around North America to record it all locally. There's the somewhat infamous Xiaolin Chronicles, which features a bizarre cast consisting exclusively of Canadians living in Los Angeles. The voice director is an American and the primary recording studio was Salami. It's not in the SAG database. My assumption has been that the producers couldn't afford a SAG pre-lay contract but wanted Strong back, so they got her under ACTRA terms.

I was going to bring up Jillian Michaels, since she's lived in Los Angeles for a few years now. Back in January, she announced that she'd be returning to Ninjago and posted a photo of her in an LA recording studio. The only entry for that franchise in the SAG database is for the movie where all the Vancouver actors were replaced with celebrities. However, looking at the stuff she's been in post-move, I'm not sure she's a SAG member. Though, if they're getting Kaye back, I guess this means there's more than a zero percent chance she'll return for the handful of lines kid Shippo will get. That is of course assuming she has a sufficient at-home setup or they let people in LA record things in-studio.

As for Norm, there's a likely reason those DTVs are in the SAG database. Only one cast member reprised their role from the theatrical movie for the stuff Ocean did. She just so happens to share a last name with the CEO of Lionsgate, the movie studio responsible for releasing the series.

[millicent]

Originally Posted by IMB

There's the somewhat infamous Xiaolin Chronicles, which features a bizarre cast consisting exclusively of Canadians living in Los Angeles. The voice director is an American and the primary recording studio was Salami. It's not in the SAG database. My assumption has been that the producers couldn't afford a SAG pre-lay contract but wanted Strong back, so they got her under ACTRA terms.

Interesting. Granted, it's just a DA post, but do you think this here is a reliable breakdown of things?

[IMB]

Originally Posted by millicent

Interesting. Granted, it's just a DA post, but do you think this here is a reliable breakdown of things?

I'd have to say no because they're under the impression that Xiaolin Chronicles is a Canadian show and was therefore restricted to Canadian actors. There is nothing requiring Canadian companies hire local talent. Which is moot because it's difficult to find any Canadian connection to that series outside of the voice acting anyway. The major production companies behind it were American and French. It wasn't commissioned by a Canadian broadcaster. This wasn't a Totally Spies type of situation.

I'm by no means an expert in Canadian labour law, so I'm not in a position to talk about the details from that person's professor. I can tell you that the ability for ACTRA signatories to buyout an actor's performance in perpetuity is absolutely a thing. That was one of the union's more attractive features. I can also tell you that collaboration between ACTRA and SAG members was possible before and after Xiaolin Chronicles. In the early '00s, there were a few Warner Bros. Animation productions that mixed non-celebrity LA and Vancouver actors. In more recent years, we've had things like Dragon Prince and Nelvana's Bravest Warriors, to name just two.

[drakh]

The Xaolin Chronicles cast is fascinating. I guess you're right, SAG must have conceded the ability of members with Canadian citizenship to work under ACTRA even within its jurisdiction.

"Actors of stature" sounds more like an accelerated immigration/citizenship path. As you say, Canadian productions are full of Americans, not all of them all that well known, and going by this, it seems non-Canadian actors don't even need work permit.

[SNaG]

Well, Viz announced the first of the Yashahime dub cast, and it's seemingly Bang Zoom. No returning characters have been announced yet but... I'm doubtful that we'll get Ocean again. Would love to be proven wrong though.

[IMB]

Originally Posted by SNaG

Well, Viz announced the first of the Yashahime dub cast, and it's seemingly Bang Zoom. No returning characters have been announced yet but... I'm doubtful that we'll get Ocean again. Would love to be proven wrong though.

I've seen a lot of random people hope they'll get the Vancouver actors back for the reprisals. I see no reason to believe that'll happen with a nonunion Bang Zoom dub. I'd be surprised if they even got Kaye back, though part of me thinks they would just to say, "Hey, we know InuYasha had a completely different cast, here's one of them lol."

Originally Posted by IMB

They've been reusing the same audio for the last 5 commercials ...

The common speculation is that the dub is skipping the current season. As I previously mentioned, it's a weird magical girl spinoff that isn't as directly a promotional tool for the TCG as earlier iterations. The next Vanguard anime, Overdress, is meant to be a big 10th-anniversary push, so it'll hopefully resume with that.

They finally got Griffin Kingston to record a new commercial.

[SNaG]

Originally Posted by IMB

I've seen a lot of random people hope they'll get the Vancouver actors back for the reprisals. I see no reason to believe that'll happen with a nonunion Bang Zoom dub. I'd be surprised if they even got Kaye back, though part of me thinks they would just to say, "Hey, we know InuYasha had a completely different cast, here's one of them lol."

But Bang Zoom has a great track record of bringing people back!!!!!!

[PacoSlimee]

The odds of it having any reprisals basically relied on it being Canadian. I honestly can't picture any US based dubbing company going out of their way to contact the OG cast outside of maybe Funi. And that really just comes down to them using Scott McNeil and Brian Drummond for one-off appearances.