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Old 05-17-2016   #111
Domayv
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Default Re: Are Vancouver dubs going to go extinct?

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Originally Posted by huzaifa_ahmed View Post
I do believe a dub for World Trigger is in the works!
everyone kind of knows that now. Here's the cast.

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Old 08-12-2016   #112
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Default Re: Are Vancouver dubs going to go extinct?

Gintama, World Trigger and Beyblade Burst (among others) say otherwise.
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Old 01-27-2017   #113
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Default Re: Are Vancouver dubs going to go extinct?

Happening upon this thread again, I wanted to make a statement on the issue of cost & value that really seems the crux of the issue.

Anime tends to be a much lower-budget thing, & dubs are post-production, most of the time (certain co-productions aside). Even if the audience might be huge in Japan, New Zealand, etc...if the audience were big enough to prioritize that region's language, it'd be originally made in that language. This is why things such as the Marvel, Stitch, & Powerpuff Girls anime exist. On the other side, we have different regions' individual needs for dubbing. Japan's demand for imports is very high, so the general value/pay for dubs is fairly good, & dubs often crossover with Japanese-original works.

For the US...we make all of our entertainment (as well as most everyone else's). TV networks/companies, as a rule, prefer producing & selling over buying other people's stuff. When stuff is imported, it's a contraction, not expansion, of business. This is why many more anime-esque American shows (ala Teen Titans, ATLA, Ben10) were made in the 2000s, than anime actually co-produced or imported. But Canada is where it gets interesting. Unlike the US, Canada doesnt produce everything they need on their own. Vancouver, while a very good & respectable acting market, isnt quite *the* market that Hollywood/LA is. They require imports, in a way that American TV really doesnt. This is why they tend to value dubs much higher. ACTRA's dubbing rate for animation is around $178.50/hour. SAG-AFTRA's is only $64.25/hour+21.50/episode, & has been so since 2003, whereas ACTRA's is always increasing. This heavy disparity is what, in general, makes Vancouver dubs much more expensive than LA dubs.

Cut to today's ecosystem for anime - most things are streamed via Internet, things like CrunchyRoll & Hulu. Fewer licensing fees & middlemen for the Japanese companies, more revenue from streaming, & an environment for subtitled content to flourish (whereas TV networks wouldnt dare airing subs). As stated earlier, dubs are for exposure, & well, if the shows get enough exposure without dubs, that certainly makes it a lot less worth it to pay to get shows on TV than it was in say, 2005. It's still worth it, of course, but those union rates were likely forged at a time when TV was needed for dubs. Nowadays, JP are pushing for higher profits/less localization & dubbing costs, so those union rates are incompatible with the much lower current needs. The fact that there are almost no anime dubs that are unionized in LA, & that certain dub directors & staff, like Stephanie Sheh, have specificly mentioned that dub budgets are lower, should say something about that. Also considering that FUNimation, currently the anime distributor in North America, hasnt provided us a single dub under union contract, should tell you something.

Personally I sort of think the union rate should be reset to a standard which is manageable for Japanese companies & licensors alike. Probably lower, although I think residuals are necessary & only fair to actors, who often contribute tremendously to the enjoyment of the show. Even though Schemmel & Hayter are just dubbing, clearly the fan loyalty should tell you something.

TLDR Good Canada import rates make it expensive for anime companies, & unnecessary at a time when the anime industry can cut out middlemen & dubbing costs through Internet simulcasting. We stopped using Vancouver for the same reason we stopped using the standard LA contract, & everything goes to Texas or subtitled-only.

Last edited by huzaifa_ahmed; 01-27-2017 at 07:54 PM.
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Old 01-27-2017   #114
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Default Re: Are Vancouver dubs going to go extinct?

Quote:
Originally Posted by huzaifa_ahmed View Post
Happening upon this thread again, I wanted to make a statement on the issue of cost & value that really seems the crux of the issue.

Anime tends to be a much lower-budget thing, & dubs are post-production, most of the time (certain co-productions aside). Even if the audience might be huge in Japan, New Zealand, etc...if the audience were big enough to prioritize that region's language, it'd be originally made in that language. This is why things such as the Marvel, Stitch, & Powerpuff Girls anime exist. On the other side, we have different regions' individual needs for dubbing. Japan's demand for imports is very high, so the general value/pay for dubs is fairly good, & dubs often crossover with Japanese-original works.

For the US...we make all of our entertainment (as well as most everyone else's). TV networks/companies, as a rule, prefer producing & selling overbuying other people's stuff. When stuff is imported, it's a contraction, not expansion, of business. This is why many more anime-esque American shows (ala Teen Titans, ATlA, Ben10) were made in the 2000s, than anime actually co-produced or imported. But Canada is where it gets interesting. Unlike the US, Canada doesnt produce everything they need on their own. Vancouver, while a very good & respectable acting market, isnt quite *the* market that Hollywood/LA is. They require imports, in a way that American TV really doesnt. This is why they tend to value dubs much higher. ACTRA's dubbing rate for animation is around $178.50/hour. SAG-AFTRA's is only $64.25/hour+21.50/episode, & has been so since 2003, whereas ACTRA's is always increasing. This heavy disparity is what, in general, makes Vancouver dubs much more expensive than LA dubs.

Cut to today's ecosystem for anime - most things are streamed via Internet, things like CrunchyRoll & Hulu. Fewer licensing fees & middlemen for the Japanese companies, more revenue from streaming, & an environment for subtitled content to flourish (whereas TV networks wouldnt dare airing subs). As stated earlier, dubs are for exposure, & well, if the shows get enough exposure without dubs, that certainly makes it a lot less worth it to pay to get shows on TV than it was in say, 2005. It's still worth it, of course, but those union rates were likely forged at a time when TV was needed for dubs. Nowadays, JP are pushing for higher profits/less localization & dubbing costs, so those union rates are incompatible with the much lower current needs.

* The fact that there are almost no anime dubs that are unionized in LA, & that certain dub directors & staff, like Stephanie Sheh, have specificly mentioned that dub budgets are lower, should say something about that. Also considering that FUNimation, currently the anime distributor in North America, hasnt provided us a single dub under union contract, should tell you something.

Personally I sort of think the union rate should be reset to a standard which is manageable for Japanese companies & licensors alike. Probably lower, although I think residuals are necessary & only fair to actors, who often contribute tremendously to the enjoyment of the show. Even though Schemmel & Hayter are just dubbing, clearly the fan loyalty should tell you something. TLDR Good Canada import rates make it expensive for anime companies, & unnecessary at a time when the anime industry can cut out middlemen & dubbing costs through Internet simulcasting. We stopped using Vancouver for the same reason we stopped using the standard LA contract, & everything goes to Texas or subtitled-only.
Very insightful post there.
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Old 01-27-2017   #115
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Default Re: Are Vancouver dubs going to go extinct?

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Very insightful post there.
Thank you, I had a moment of silence & darkness when I typed it out. Peace & all. I'll still have to add links for some of the stuff I referenced, & edit/cut it down a bit.
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Old 01-27-2017   #116
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Default Re: Are Vancouver dubs going to go extinct?

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Originally Posted by huzaifa_ahmed View Post
Also considering that FUNimation, currently the anime distributor in North America, hasnt provided us a single dub under union contract, should tell you something.
Nagato Yuki-Chan is a hybrid LA+Dallas dub since it had both Habertat (LA) and OkraTron 5000 (Dallas) on the credits, and it was union-contracted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by huzaifa_ahmed View Post
Personally I sort of think the union rate should be reset to a standard which is manageable for Japanese companies & licensors alike. Probably lower, although I think residuals are necessary & only fair to actors, who often contribute tremendously to the enjoyment of the show.
This I can go with.

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Originally Posted by huzaifa_ahmed View Post
Even though Schemmel & Hayter are just dubbing, clearly the fan loyalty should tell you something. TLDR Good Canada import rates make it expensive for anime companies, & unnecessary at a time when the anime industry can cut out middlemen & dubbing costs through Internet simulcasting. We stopped using Vancouver for the same reason we stopped using the standard LA contract, & everything goes to Texas or subtitled-only.
Anything about Netflix though (anything they get they dub), and the simuldubs.
Also, add in the existence of Bionix and its impact on Vancouver dubs, alongside with how Toonami coming to Canada could change the current dub scene, and Musicland's role in the R1 anime industry.

Also, try to correct the "Everything" to "most anime" as there are still LA anime dubs.

Personally, I think if anime dub budgets want to go high again, several things must take place, and have to be concurrent.

* Raise the prices: This is the most important thing. Single-cour anime shows back then were sold in 3-4-episode singles, with each costing $40. As shown in the ANNCast The Life and Kime of Geneon, USA, Geneon tried various price points for their singles ($30, $45, even as low as $20 per single), and the results shows that sales were the same, proving that anime videos are inelastic, and this is still true to this day as shown with Aniplex of America releases. The high amount of revenue was what enabled anime companies to spend more on dubs. Just look at this chart right here. Furthermore, when companies shifted to cour sets to offset the issues of unsold copies, they failed to take into account the price inelasticity, and thus revenue was slashed severely when you compare current revenue to the that of the anime industry's zenith.
** Price points
*** $7.50 per episode for regular edition, meaning around $90 per single-cour set
*** $10 per episode for limited edition, meaning around $120 per single-cour set
*** $12.50 per episode for collector's/premium edition, meaning around $180 per single-cour set
* Increase amount of revenue the streams get. This at least will add in additional revenue.

Personally I think simuldubs are a good thing overall but they need to be done in moderation to maintain quality and only be limited to the highest-demanded titles of the season. Furthermore, simuldubs should indeed pay higher. I'm thinking they should go with $96.40/hour (and for union dubs, an additional $32.25 per episode)
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Old 01-31-2017   #117
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Default Re: Are Vancouver dubs going to go extinct?

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Nagato Yuki-Chan is a hybrid LA+Dallas dub since it had both Habertat (LA) and OkraTron 5000 (Dallas) on the credits, and it was union-contracted.
This is only due to the success & popularity of the previous dub. It would be much more worth it than them dubbing it w/non-union sound-alikes. They even used RK dub-alikes for their live-action dub, due to how ubiquitous the RK anime dub was on TV. They know their audience, & of course they're going to use previously established money-makers, over tearing it down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Domayv
Anything about Netflix though (anything they get they dub), and the simuldubs.
I think, to put it simply, it's worth it, but clearly it is not as big a need as when awkwardly-licensed TV airings were the only way to go about popularizing a show. NF, w/their massive pile of money & lavishly unnecessary license biddings...dont unionize dubs either. I'm not sure how/why that is, though. I'd expect big-budget dubs from them. Maybe it isnt a big seller? I'm not sure. Demand necessitates pay, of course.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Domayv
Also, add in the existence of Bionix and its impact on Vancouver dubs, alongside with how Toonami coming to Canada could change the current dub scene, and Musicland's role in the R1 anime industry.
Yup, if Toonami or other anime-airing blocks became a bigger deal, probably they'd do more dubs there. Maybe. Theyre much more expensive, but having a guaranteed quota for Canada-produced content might balance it out more.

[QUOTE=Domayv]Also, try to correct the "Everything" to "most anime" as there are still LA anime dubs.[QUOTE]

There are some, yes, but FUNiRoll means that virtually everything that isnt Netflix-owned, gets an LA dub. Although I really think the diversity of dual-studio dubs, both from NF/Viz/AP & FUNi/maybe Sentai, makes up for whatd be very slightly raised costs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Domayv
Personally, I think if anime dub budgets want to go high again, several things must take place, and have to be concurrent. Increase amount of revenue the streams get. This at least will add in additional revenue. Personally I think simuldubs are a good thing overall but they need to be done in moderation to maintain quality and only be limited to the highest-demanded titles of the season. Furthermore, simuldubs should indeed pay higher. I'm thinking they should go with $96.40/hour (and for union dubs, an additional $32.25/episode.
Aniplex sells 5 episodes for $80, & I find their dubs better, sure, but...it's not by much. F/Z is awesome, as was Drrr, but to put it in short, I think

As for union/non-union...I think the majority of an industry should follow the union standard. That's why it's there. Most video games, cartoons, even web stuff often follows union standard. I'm interested in why it's so different for dubs. I'll come back to this topic. I'm in class.
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Old 01-31-2017   #118
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Default Re: Are Vancouver dubs going to go extinct?

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Originally Posted by huzaifa_ahmed View Post
This is only due to the success & popularity of the previous dub. It would be much more worth it than them dubbing it w/non-union sound-alikes. They even used RK dub-alikes for their live-action dub, due to how ubiquitous the RK anime dub was on TV.
Well, the cast or RK TV was from waaay back in 2000. LA's anime dub pool is much different compared to back then. Though Funi at least put in the effort into finding the closest sounding VAs (compare that to Shana S2+)

Quote:
Originally Posted by huzaifa_ahmed View Post
NF, w/their massive pile of money & lavishly unnecessary license biddings...dont unionize dubs either. I'm not sure how/why that is, though. I'd expect big-budget dubs from them. Maybe it isnt a big seller? I'm not sure. Demand necessitates pay, of course.
Maybe NF hasn't fully understood anime yet IDK. I think a bigger concern for them right now is having them simulcast episodes like all the other anime streaming companies do (and even Netflix Japan does that) as opposed to the bulk method since it would actually get more views than people having to wait months (and thus lose interest) for it to be complete so NF can release it. Unionization can come next after that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by huzaifa_ahmed View Post
Yup, if Toonami or other anime-airing blocks became a bigger deal, probably they'd do more dubs there. Maybe. Theyre much more expensive, but having a guaranteed quota for Canada-produced content might balance it out more.
Considering what happened with Bionix. When it died, Vancouver dubs dried up with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by huzaifa_ahmed View Post
There are some, yes, but FUNiRoll means that virtually everything that isnt Netflix-owned, gets an LA dub. Although I really think the diversity of dual-studio dubs, both from NF/Viz/AP & FUNi/maybe Sentai, makes up for whatd be very slightly raised costs.
Doesn't Netflix have anime they get dubbed in LA? And I think you meant Dallas. Explain this better since it's confusing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by huzaifa_ahmed View Post
Aniplex sells 5 episodes for $80, & I find their dubs better, sure, but...it's not by much. F/Z is awesome, as was Drrr, but to put it in short, I think
It depends on the episode count. Kill la Kill LE singles (which are roughly 5 episodes each) are sold at around $59.98 on RightStuf, making it ~$12 per episode but have some extras and the basic DVD and BD singles are sold at $29.98 and $39.98, respectively (~$6 per episode and ~$8 per episode). SAO II volume 3 LE has the highest per-episode price ($59.98/3 episodes = ~$20 per episode).

Quote:
Originally Posted by huzaifa_ahmed View Post
As for union/non-union...I think the majority of an industry should follow the union standard. That's why it's there. Most video games, cartoons, even web stuff often follows union standard. I'm interested in why it's so different for dubs. I'll come back to this topic. I'm in class.
For dubs, you kind of explained that several months ago.

As to why union dubs don't get residuals, most union dubs end up under Category III, which are foreign language motion picture to be dubbed into English for initial exhibition
in any market (e.g., home video, airline, pay television) other than those covered by Categories I (initial theatrical exhibition) and II (initial exhibition on broadcast or cable television). This, of course, would mean that if AoA made, say, the SAO Ordinal Scale movie union (it'd be a no-brainer actually as it's a cash cow for them) with the intent on showing it first in theaters (and it will be screened here in the theaters first), the VAs involved would receive the residuals. See this article for more.
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Old 02-01-2017   #119
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Default Re: Are Vancouver dubs going to go extinct?

I figured this would be an appropriate thread to post this. It's basically a petition trying to get Dragon Ball Kai broadcast in Canada (with the hope of it being the completed Canadian/Ocean dub). It might not work but as a last resort it's worth a try in my opinion.

https://www.change.org/p/michelle-mc...share_petition
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Old 02-01-2017   #120
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Default Re: Are Vancouver dubs going to go extinct?

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I figured this would be an appropriate thread to post this. It's basically a petition trying to get Dragon Ball Kai broadcast in Canada (with the hope of it being the completed Canadian/Ocean dub). It might not work but as a last resort it's worth a try in my opinion.

https://www.change.org/p/michelle-mc...share_petition
I'm not sure about this. Which Canadian channel is gonna air it because the lack of interest in it was what killed it in spite of its completion. Even if it were to succeed, Ocean would have to go back to do another set of episodes, and it's unknown who even paid them for the first part (and Toei's focusing on the BZ dub of DB Super)

I think the best chance for it to happen is if Toonami comes to Canada

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