Sonic voice compares

[OptimusSolo]

Originally Posted by pokemastanumba1

Well yes, a lot of things aren't fair, including other voice compares on this site, but still.

You say this as if it is a fact when in reality it is just your opinion. I will say that I am glad you actually discussed this in a mature civilized manner though and I am not saying you haven't made good points. But across the site we have set the standard to include all different ages in the same voice compare whether that is wrong or right, it would take a lot of work to change that for every compare it would effect.

[NCZ]

I'm sorry, but I have to wonder if you've actually played Generations.

They're shown at the same time because of time travel. Just because a younger and older Sonic are shown alongside each other doesn't make them separate people. Time travel doesn't work that way. Furthermore, Sonic mentions that there's something familiar about Chemical Plant, meaning he remembers the events of Sonic 2, therefore they are the same person from the same timeline.

The age difference between the two in Generations is never stated. Classic Sonic in Generations being five years younger than normal Sonic is pure fan speculation, nothing more. In fact, materials such as his bio in Sonic Jam states that Sonic is 16 around that time. In Adventure, Sonic is 15 (which actually would make his modern self younger), but this is a retcon, not a timeline thing. At the same time, Amy aged four years and Knuckles aged one year. Since time doesn't work that way, this means that the characters were retconned. Sega probably considers them to have always been these ages, including in those TV shows.

So what if the TV shows are non-canon? They were made with Sega's approval and were officially licensed. By that logic, we'd have to remove a lot of actors from voice compares because they were from adaptations.

Again, the only thing different between the two Sonics is that he looks different. This is nothing new. Mickey Mouse looks different now compared to how he did in the 1920s. It's simply a natural thing that happens to a long-lasting franchise. He is still the same character as he was in the '90s even with the series' new art direction. The VC is not unfair at all.

[thomwim]

I reckon that Kath Soucie voiced Tails in a select few 90s episodes of one of the animated series.

If I misread the credits, then she was only Princess Sally.

[pokemastanumba1]

Originally Posted by OptimusSolo

You say this as if it is a fact when in reality it is just your opinion. I will say that I am glad you actually discussed this in a mature civilized manner though and I am not saying you haven't made good points. But across the site we have set the standard to include all different ages in the same voice compare whether that is wrong or right, it would take a lot of work to change that for every compare it would effect.

Very true, some of what I believe is unfair really is just my opinion, but there are a few things that could really use some adjustment. Some voice compares have clips that could be much better in terms of length and/or quality, and while it may be technically very difficult to implement, there should be some sort of "tie" option for larger VCs (at least eight different VAs, that is). That and fixing the currently existing VCs would be lots of extra work, but I think it can facilitate the use of BTVA.

Originally Posted by NCZ

I'm sorry, but I have to wonder if you've actually played Generations.

I haven't played Generations, nor have I given any more thought of doing so ever since our conversation in another thread specifically about that game. Not that I don't want to play it; things have been going on, and I'm already working on playthroughs of other games that I have to finish and don't want to juggle too many titles at once. Besides, I have never been a real Sonic fan. What I have done was watch some footage of Generations on YouTube.

They're shown at the same time because of time travel. Just because a younger and older Sonic are shown alongside each other doesn't make them separate people. Time travel doesn't work that way. Furthermore, Sonic mentions that there's something familiar about Chemical Plant, meaning he remembers the events of Sonic 2, therefore they are the same person from the same timeline.

Time travel is a very abstract concept which usually isn't implemented very well. In fact, it was completely unheard of in the Sonic franchise before Generations. The two Sonics never experienced the same series of events except for when they were together in the game, even from the start. Classic Sonic was being rushing through Green Hill Zone like a madman while Modern Sonic was celebrating his birthday. Also notice how differently the other characters interact with them, and how they interact with each other. None of it would make anywhere near as much sense if they were the exact same character.

That reference to Sonic 2 is just that: a reference. It doesn't mean anything. There are countless examples of references in a certain video game to another game(s), such as the Mario-based characters in Link's Awakening or Solid Snake's mentioning of Spike and Jimmy from Ape Escape, Sam Fisher from Splinter Cell, and Gabe Logan from Syphon Filter in MGS3. They are completely irrelevant and just thrown in there for nostalgia.

The age difference between the two in Generations is never stated. Classic Sonic in Generations being five years younger than normal Sonic is pure fan speculation, nothing more. In fact, materials such as his bio in Sonic Jam states that Sonic is 16 around that time. In Adventure, Sonic is 15 (which actually would make his modern self younger), but this is a retcon, not a timeline thing. At the same time, Amy aged four years and Knuckles aged one year. Since time doesn't work that way, this means that the characters were retconned. Sega probably considers them to have always been these ages, including in those TV shows.

As mentioned earlier, Modern Sonic celebrated his birthday in Generations; Classic Sonic didn't. The exact ages of the characters are uncertain, though they're most likely at least a few years apart.

Again, the only thing different between the two Sonics is that he looks different.

Um, anyone can tell just by looking at them...the bigger differences are between their voices and personalities. Jaleel, Martin, and Samuel have only voiced Classic Sonic whereas Modern Sonic has been voiced by Ryan, Jason, then Roger. Also note that in Generations, Classic is silent. Also, Classic is more antsy and slick while Modern is laidback and heroic. They're pretty different enough.

[NCZ]

Well first, I'm sorry to say this, but if you haven't played Generations and aren't really a big Sonic fan, I don't think you're really qualified enough for this. I don't know anything about Star Trek for instance, so I wouldn't be able to object to a VC from there unless I was truly familiar enough to know what I'm talking about.

Those references aren't the same situation. They're obviously not canon, relevant to the plot, or even related to the same franchise. They are just there for giggles. Sonic referred to the past game as though he's experienced it. While that was partly put in for giggles, it creates continuity, and is thus plot-relevant. It confirms that Sonic DID experience the events of 2.

There's a difference between Sonic saying, for instance "Don't call a plumber. I can do this!" That kind of reference means nothing. It doesn't necessarily mean Sonic is better than Mario; he's just saying that he'd be better at saving the day than a plumber. It gets a quick laugh, but means nothing for the storyline.

"Hey Tails, remember when we went to the Olympics with Mario? Good times!" This is Sonic referencing a past event in the series' continuity. That kind of reference is there to confirm that the event is canon, and it also establishes that there is a long-running plot.

Also, time travel wasn't "completely unheard of" before Generations. It was the main hook of Sonic CD.

As mentioned earlier, Modern Sonic celebrated his birthday in Generations; Classic Sonic didn't. The exact ages of the characters are uncertain, though they're most likely at least a few years apart.

I really don't get what point you're trying to prove here. Classic Sonic could have been taken to the present on any day. Besides, the fact that we don't see him celebrate means nothing. Sonic 1 took place before he met his friends anyway.

And obviously they're experiencing different events. They're in different time periods! The characters interact differently with them because one is the one in modern times, and the other is his younger self. How would you interact with your best friend if he brought his younger self along? The same way they do.

I recommend you read these.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...ationMarchesOn
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ArtEvolution

Designs and personalities evolve over time. It's a natural part of a long-running franchise. They're not separate characters!

Anyway, there's no point in arguing this. The bottom line is we're not separating the compare.

Originally Posted by thomwim

I reckon that Kath Soucie voiced Tails in a select few 90s episodes of one of the animated series.

No, she didn't. Stop making things up.

[pokemastanumba1]

Originally Posted by NCZ

Well first, I'm sorry to say this, but if you haven't played Generations and aren't really a big Sonic fan, I don't think you're really qualified enough for this. I don't know anything about Star Trek for instance, so I wouldn't be able to object to a VC from there unless I was truly familiar enough to know what I'm talking about.

Just because someone hasn't played a game or a fan of a certain something doesn't necessarily mean he/she knows absolutely nothing about it. While I haven't played a single Sonic game in years, nor was I ever a real fan, I still get some exposure to the franchise from a few different places, namely by watching the trailers, reading the reviews, and looking through posts from voice actors who work on the series (Roger Craig Smith and Mike Pollock in this case) on Facebook. While I'm no Sonic expert, I have learned a few things about it as of late.

Also, not being a fan means that I can look at the VCs with an open mind and from an honest, unbiased point-of-view, unlike most real Sonic fans (no offense).

Sonic referred to the past game as though he's experienced it. While that was partly put in for giggles, it creates continuity, and is thus plot-relevant. It confirms that Sonic DID experience the events of 2.

"Hey Tails, remember when we went to the Olympics with Mario? Good times!" This is Sonic referencing a past event in the series' continuity. That kind of reference is there to confirm that the event is canon, and it also establishes that there is a long-running plot.

How do those references relate the plotlines of those games? Also, crossovers such as the M&SOG games are always non-canon. The Mario Bros. are in their own separate universe.

I really don't get what point you're trying to prove here. Classic Sonic could have been taken to the present on any day. Besides, the fact that we don't see him celebrate means nothing. Sonic 1 took place before he met his friends anyway.

The point here is that they don't have the same birthday.

And obviously they're experiencing different events. They're in different time periods! The characters interact differently with them because one is the one in modern times, and the other is his younger self. How would you interact with your best friend if he brought his younger self along? The same way they do.

That's the whole basic principle of the thing. They're intended to be treated differently because they are different characters. They're not clones, nor are they the same exact character.

Designs and personalities evolve over time. It's a natural part of a long-running franchise. They're not separate characters!

Anyway, there's no point in arguing this. The bottom line is we're not separating the compare.

Again, I understand that there's not much motivation to make new Sonic VCs, and you definitely made a few good points. But I do think you're becoming a bit too passionate about this (like most Sonic fans obviously are about the voices themselves) and that any direct confrontation isn't necessary. I'm not arguing, or at least not trying to. I want to give some professional input that may be controversial, especially to a Sonic fan, because there are people (such as myself) who *aren't* fans but would still prefer to review the compares, particularly from an honest and unbiased point-of-view.

I apologize if this has been taken too far, but I just think it's very unfair the way it is.

[NCZ]

Still, being vaguely familiar is not the same as knowing the ins-and-outs. I've been a pretty big fan for over eight years now, played almost all of the games and been to several forums and fansites, so I should know what I'm talking about.

Those are hypothetical quotes. I just made them up. Mario is in its own universe, but just for that one game, they are in the same universe. If Sonic ever directly referred to the events of the olympic games, it would establish them as being canon and both franchises taking place in the same universe. Again, all hypothetical, but I used it to illustrate a point.

Just because we don't see Sonic celebrating doesn't mean they don't have the same birthday. As I said previously, the younger Sonic could've been taken to the future on a different date. Then, he wouldn't need to celebrate because it's not his birthday. There's no evidence directly stating they have different birthdays.

No. They're not treated differently because they're different characters. There are two individuals physically existing at the same time, so the others have to act as though they are different people (otherwise things would be confusing), even though they are the same person. It doesn't make them separate.

It is directly stated numerous times in the game that the younger Sonic grows up to become the modern-day Sonic. I really think you're going out of your way to interpret things otherwise.

Well yeah, I'm going to be passionate. As the Sonic expert on the staff, I think I should know what's best for the category.

From an honest and unbiased point of view, they're the same character. That's how it's always been and I've never heard anyone else suggest otherwise. He's evolved over time, yes, but with this logic, there are loads of VCs we should separate because the character looks different or has a slightly-different personality. We're not going to do that. End of discussion.

[pokemastanumba1]

Originally Posted by NCZ

Still, being vaguely familiar is not the same as knowing the ins-and-outs. I've been a pretty big fan for over eight years now, played almost all of the games and been to several forums and fansites, so I should know what I'm talking about.

I'm not really "vaguely familiar" as I've gotten a fair amount of exposure to the franchise even though I haven't played any of the games in years and I have never been a real fan.

No. They're not treated differently because they're different characters. There are two individuals physically existing at the same time, so the others have to act as though they are different people (otherwise things would be confusing), even though they are the same person. It doesn't make them separate.

I just don't think Generations would make as much sense if they really are the exact same character, but I dunno. I always thought of them as separate when I watched clips on YouTube.

Well yeah, I'm going to be passionate. As the Sonic expert on the staff, I think I should know what's best for the category.

Yes, I'm sure you would know that best too, but as someone who's not a fan nor has played any of the games (at least in years), I wanted to provide that point of view as most other people aren't fans, or at least not hardcore fans.

From an honest and unbiased point of view, they're the same character. That's how it's always been and I've never heard anyone else suggest otherwise. He's evolved over time, yes, but with this logic, there are loads of VCs we should separate because the character looks different or has a slightly-different personality. We're not going to do that. End of discussion.

Ok, so maybe separating the Sonic VC really wouldn't be such a good idea. Still, it's something that can be considered at a later time if there are major changes to either the franchise or even BTVA itself.

[thomwim]

Originally Posted by NCZ

No, she didn't. Stop making things up.

I only made the guess because I haven't seen either the Saturday Morning cartoon or "Adventures of Sonic" in over 10 years. I'm worried that I might be mixing up information.

[Trami0501]

Sonic the Hedgehog is sounds like a teenager and sexy!